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Chitown-Angler
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Joined: 05:33pm - Aug 28,11
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Post Posted: 06:29pm - Jan 18,18 
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Went to Navy Pier this morning after work. While the diving birds were having a feast with the perch, the few guys out there did not to that good. I did manage to get one fish. No bites on cut bait or squid (both were top producers for me last weeks) but they were biting on shrimp. I guess they were dinks, the bite was super light, and the bait was just disappearing (the only fish I got was hooked by the gills).

Got checked by the DNR. I was the first guy checked, he parked right across from me. I told him I had one fish, then he asked me what I was using. I told him shrimp (the bag was open on the concrete barrier) and cut bait. He asked what kind. Squid and perch. Then he told me I cannot use perch for bait, and walked away to check the other guys. He passed me again to check the guy on the other side of me (the guy did not have any fish, but he had to open his backpack to show it), then when he returned he stopped by me again. He was nice, answered my questions, and gave me this:

Image

I'm not complaining, I'm just following his advice, and spread the word. First time is a warning, my info is in the system, next time it will be a ticket. So please be aware. Tight lines !

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Chitown-Angler

Joined: 07:27pm - Jun 23,13
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Location: Palos Park

Post Posted: 07:15pm - Jan 18,18 
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810.35(b): No fish species may be dressed (filleted or head and tail removed) on any waters to which length or bag limits are applicable. Regardless of where taken, no fish less than the specified minimum length
or more than the daily harvest shall be possessed while taking from, or on, any waters to which length or bag limits and/or daily harvest limits apply. While taking from areas designated as "Catch
and Release Only", all harvest and release species must be immediately released back into the waters from which taken.

Thus, I assume, he assumed, you caught a perch (today) and cut it up/used it as cut bait. Also, on no lake or body of water controlled by ILDNR regs, is shore lunch legal, if the fish to be eaten is controlled by a bag limit.

Thus Asian Big Head Carp (or similar) should be the description of choice when using cut bait.

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Chitown-Angler
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Post Posted: 07:29pm - Jan 18,18 
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Windy City wrote:
...
Thus, I assume, he assumed, you caught a perch (today) and cut it up/used it as cut bait. Also, on no lake or body of water controlled by ILDNR regs, is shore lunch legal, if the fish to be eaten is controlled by a bag limit....


No, I told (and showed) him I had strips of perch bellies collected from the fish I caught in the last two months. I have a small thermos bottle (the one used to keep the soup hot) and I keep my cut bait in it, in a mixture of fish oil and gulp alive liquid. I was told by one of his colleagues back in December that I cannot cut the perch on the water, but I can bring pieces of previously caught perch. Apparently the field officers were applying that ambiguous 810.35b section based on their own understanding, so the IDNR had a administrative decision regarding the cut bait. We cannot use any cut bait if there is a daily creel for that species at that site.

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Chitown-Angler
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Location: Bolingbrook, IL

Post Posted: 07:34am - Jan 19,18 
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I'm pretty sure we discussed this at length on here in another thread. There is absolutely nothing in the 2017 regulations that says you can't use a perch as your cut bait. And the 2017 regulations are valid until March 31, 2018. That DNR officer is wrong, and needs to stop threatening people with regulations/tickets for a law that doesn't exist and/or doesn't apply to this situation. And he needs to be made aware of it. I would print out the regulations guide and keep it with you for the next time. And I wouldn't stop using cut bait, either, if you choose to. Link to the guide for anyone who wants to print it and keep it with them is below. This is corruption at its finest. A DNR officer trying to pull money into the state using a regulation that doesn't exist/apply to the situation in any way whatsoever, preying on the lack of knowledge of the fishermen he is employed to protect the rights of. Why should I expect anything less from this state? Thank God I'm moving out of here soon.

https://www.ifishillinois.org/regulatio ... ide%20.pdf

This is the ONLY thing in the 2017 regulations regarding cut bait.

BLUEGILL AS BAIT
There is nothing in the Illinois Fish Code which
prohibits the use of legally taken bluegill or sunfish
as bait for another species of fish, but bluegill/
sunfish can only be used at the body of water from
which they were taken. The bluegill/sunfish must
have been taken by a properly licensed sport
fisherman using legal sportfishing devices. You
must also observe all length limits and daily harvest
limits both where the bluegill/sunfish were taken
and where they are being used as bait. Also, it is
illegal to cut up or dress or be in possession of
cut up or dressed fish on any body of water where
there is a size limit for that particular species of fish.

810.35(b): No fish species may be dressed (filleted or head and tail removed) on any waters to which length or bag limits are applicable. Regardless of where taken, no fish less than the specified minimum length
or more than the daily harvest shall be possessed while taking from, or on, any waters to which length or bag limits and/or daily harvest limits apply. While taking from areas designated as "Catch
and Release Only", all harvest and release species must be immediately released back into the waters from which taken.

This entire thing is not applicable in this situation.

No fish species may be dressed (filleted or head and tail removed) on any waters to which length or bag limits are applicable.
The head and tail can't be removed. So if you cut the belly off, but leave the head and tail, that section doesn't apply. Because you can still determine a length(doesn't apply to perch anyways since there is no length limit) and still determine that it's a perch that you can count towards your limit.
Notwithstanding the fact that nothing in the regulations says anything about using cut bait from your home from a previous trip in which you salvaged your scraps after cleaning your legal limit.

Regardless of where taken, no fish less than the specified minimum length
or more than the daily harvest shall be possessed while taking from, or on, any waters to which length or bag limits and/or daily harvest limits apply.


All this says is that you can't have a fish less than the specific length for a body of water, or more than the daily harvest bag limit in your possession. Common sense says "No shinola Sherlock." That's following standard harvest laws.

This DNR officer is just wrong. Period. End of story. Someone needs to educate this fool.

Worst case scenario, say you're using pieces of goby. Can't do a thing to you for that. It's an invasive species.

Hell, I'd go so far as to get his name and badge number and file a complaint with the DNR/state in Springfield.

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Chitown-Angler

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Post Posted: 10:39am - Jan 19,18 
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pezdek1 wrote:



This DNR officer is just wrong. Period. End of story. Someone needs to educate this fool.

Worst case scenario, say you're using pieces of goby. Can't do a thing to you for that. It's an invasive species.

Hell, I'd go so far as to get his name and badge number and file a complaint with the DNR/state in Springfield.



Name and badge are on the bottom of the ticket. Let us know how the complaint to Springfield works out.

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Chitown-Angler
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Location: Bolingbrook, IL

Post Posted: 11:05am - Jan 19,18 
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Bulldawg wrote:
pezdek1 wrote:



This DNR officer is just wrong. Period. End of story. Someone needs to educate this fool.

Worst case scenario, say you're using pieces of goby. Can't do a thing to you for that. It's an invasive species.

Hell, I'd go so far as to get his name and badge number and file a complaint with the DNR/state in Springfield.



Name and badge are on the bottom of the ticket. Let us know how the complaint to Springfield works out.


You can't really read the name, only the badge number. But the complaint can't hurt. And keep complaining about him. It's ridiculous that a DNR officer in Illinois doesn't know the regulations and laws he gets paid to enforce.

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Chitown-Angler
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Post Posted: 11:18am - Jan 19,18 
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While it is not a matter of regulation, I was told by someone who called idnr that it was an administrative decision taken by idnr, and all CO will be on the same page from now on.

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Chitown-Angler
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Post Posted: 02:12pm - Jan 19,18 
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Response for my facebook post:

Regarding the use of cut bait for perch fishing (or any other species for that matter). Using external body parts of fish from a body of water that has size or bag limits for that species has been illegal for a very long time (decades). Heads, tails and skin must be left intact. For salmon fishing many use skeins, eyes or guts as bait. That is legal. Those are considered internal body parts and not necessary for species identifcation by law enforcement. You cannot bring cut bait from home either since a law enforcement officer won't know where the fish came from. Anyway, please refrain from using cut bait or strips from perch as bait in Lake Michigan. Thank you. Dan Stephenson-IDNR Chief of Fisheries

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Chitown-Angler

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Location: Lockport, IL

Post Posted: 03:01pm - Jan 19,18 
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810.35(b): No fish species may be dressed (filleted or head and tail removed) on any waters to which length or bag limits are applicable. Regardless of where taken, no fish less than the specified minimum length
or more than the daily harvest shall be possessed while taking from, or on, any waters to which length or bag limits and/or daily harvest limits apply. While taking from areas designated as "Catch
and Release Only", all harvest and release species must be immediately released back into the waters from which taken.

That "or" is the key word. Because there is a bag limit, you can NOT use Perch...

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Chitown-Angler
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Post Posted: 03:17pm - Jan 19,18 
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The Great One wrote:
810.35(b): No fish species may be dressed (filleted or head and tail removed) on any waters to which length or bag limits are applicable. Regardless of where taken, no fish less than the specified minimum length
or more than the daily harvest shall be possessed while taking from, or on, any waters to which length or bag limits and/or daily harvest limits apply. While taking from areas designated as "Catch
and Release Only", all harvest and release species must be immediately released back into the waters from which taken.

That "or" is the key word. Because there is a bag limit, you can NOT use Perch...


It's all clear now. Why didn't I think of searching specifically for that section ? I was looking at the 2017 brochure, and that one is missing this info. So they are completely right, can't use perch as bait.

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Chitown-Angler
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Post Posted: 03:31pm - Jan 19,18 
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The Great One wrote:
810.35(b): No fish species may be dressed (filleted or head and tail removed) on any waters to which length or bag limits are applicable. Regardless of where taken, no fish less than the specified minimum length
or more than the daily harvest shall be possessed while taking from, or on, any waters to which length or bag limits and/or daily harvest limits apply. While taking from areas designated as "Catch
and Release Only", all harvest and release species must be immediately released back into the waters from which taken.

That "or" is the key word. Because there is a bag limit, you can NOT use Perch...


You're misunderstanding it. That says that a fish can't be dressed on any waters to which length or bag limits are applicable. And specifically defines what they mean by dressed. "(filleted or head and tail removed)

That's the key word. Taking the belly meat off your fish does not constitute "dressing" them, by their own defined term.

If you were to get a ticket for this, you would win your court case and have it dismissed, 100%.


Last edited by pezdek1 on 03:43pm - Jan 19,18, edited 2 times in total.
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Chitown-Angler
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Location: Bolingbrook, IL

Post Posted: 03:34pm - Jan 19,18 
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shaguna wrote:
Response for my facebook post:

Regarding the use of cut bait for perch fishing (or any other species for that matter). Using external body parts of fish from a body of water that has size or bag limits for that species has been illegal for a very long time (decades). Heads, tails and skin must be left intact. For salmon fishing many use skeins, eyes or guts as bait. That is legal. Those are considered internal body parts and not necessary for species identifcation by law enforcement. You cannot bring cut bait from home either since a law enforcement officer won't know where the fish came from. Anyway, please refrain from using cut bait or strips from perch as bait in Lake Michigan. Thank you. Dan Stephenson-IDNR Chief of Fisheries


This is Cow Doo Doo. Not gonna lie. The belly of a perch is not necessary for species identification. You can cut the belly meat off a perch and still see it's obviously a perch. It's a bogus loophole to get away with writing tickets for something that people have been doing for decades. The fact that he said it has been illegal for a very long time, (decades) is Cow Doo Doo, too.

Gotta love this ridiculous state.

On another note. You can use the internal parts. Slit the belly open, take the meat and guts out, and use that. Just leave the belly skin there. Simple. If they can do it for salmon, you can do it for perch.

And to clarify. I don't even use cut bait for LM perch. Hell, I didn't even use any live bait this winter for them. Nothing but artificials. But the fact that the DNR is trying to screw people over on this just blows my mind, and pisses me off to no end. They're struggling like hell, understaffed, underpaid, etc. So try to screw the fishermen that contribute the most to the DNR, right? Disgusting on their part. Par for the course for this jacked up state.

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Chitown-Angler

Joined: 10:11am - Feb 12,03
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Location: Lockport, IL

Post Posted: 04:30pm - Jan 19,18 
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pezdek1 wrote:
The Great One wrote:
810.35(b): No fish species may be dressed (filleted or head and tail removed) on any waters to which length or bag limits are applicable. Regardless of where taken, no fish less than the specified minimum length
or more than the daily harvest shall be possessed while taking from, or on, any waters to which length or bag limits and/or daily harvest limits apply. While taking from areas designated as "Catch
and Release Only", all harvest and release species must be immediately released back into the waters from which taken.

That "or" is the key word. Because there is a bag limit, you can NOT use Perch...


You're misunderstanding it. That says that a fish can't be dressed on any waters to which length or bag limits are applicable. And specifically defines what they mean by dressed. "(filleted or head and tail removed)

That's the key word. Taking the belly meat off your fish does not constitute "dressing" them, by their own defined term.

If you were to get a ticket for this, you would win your court case and have it dismissed, 100%.


Taking a chunk of meat off a fish is considered a "fillet"... Using internal parts is a different thing. The outside structure of the fish is still intact. Removing a chunk of meat from ANY part of the outside body is not allowed.

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Chitown-Angler

Joined: 09:16am - Jan 20,10
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Post Posted: 04:53pm - Jan 19,18 
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need to challenge this big shot DNR guy .

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Chitown-Angler

Joined: 08:23pm - Mar 19,17
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Location: Crest Hill

Post Posted: 07:56pm - Jan 19,18 
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I Think its a stretch to say that the DNR is writing tickets to raise money. If they were, they would need a fricken bus to haul people away and a panel van to haul off the confiscated equipment. Quite Frankly I see so much BS going on, I would like to see an active Campaign where they cracked down on the people taking more than the bag limit, illegally sorting and fishing without licenses.

If the Jerks 5 years ago threw all their dinks in the water instead of onto the ice, we would have that many more jumbos around now.

This Warning was written for the same reason as a speeding ticket on the expressway. Its not to slow him down. Its so everybody else sees it and slows down. By giving a written warning to a popular contributor of this site, they spread the information much faster than printing it in any pamphlet.

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Chitown-Angler
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Post Posted: 10:45am - Jan 20,18 
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Treesnagger wrote:
... By giving a written warning to a popular contributor of this site, they spread the information much faster than printing it in any pamphlet.

While he did advice me to "spread the word", he had no way of knowing I was part of any online "fishing community". :)

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Chitown-Angler

Joined: 07:27pm - Jun 23,13
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Location: Palos Park

Post Posted: 08:02am - Jan 21,18 
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Shaguna, My reason for the paste/copy of the Illinois code was merely to put the exact verbiage out for all to see. I would have done the same as you as to be a gentleman about the situation, at the time, as the IDNR officer was doing his job, as the situation called for.

In reading the code, it is convoluted, unclear and leaves a lot open to interpretation. But, this is the case with many codes in Illinois and in the surrounding communities. I wouldn't consider anything you did wrong in any way.

Contrary to what many people believe, a police officer (IDNR or other) is not nor does not have to be 100% well versed in every law in the book, just as there interpretation is not "the final word."

I personally am glad to see them there, at Navy pier, checking people and being seen. The more they are there, the more it will keep the people who have no respect for the code (or property, privacy, or anything for that matter) in line or just away from an area others respectfully use for recreation.

The guy who is keeping beyond his limit or other performing other actions that are disrespectful to the resource, is typically the same slob who is throwing trash in the lake, etc.

Kudos to you for your behavior and informing anyone else who cares to listen.

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Chitown-Angler

Joined: 01:44pm - Jan 9,18
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Location: IL

Post Posted: 08:20am - Jan 21,18 
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Sounds like the risk/reward just isn't there for cut bait.

I'd rather be fishing than challenging in court.

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Chitown-Angler

Joined: 07:43pm - Nov 21,14
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Post Posted: 04:06pm - Jan 21,18 
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I'm a little off topic but it helps to have the rules you need with you.I went around and around with a DNR officer on the Illinois by Peru about the crappie limit because he didn't know the river below starved rock dam is the Peoria pool.I showed him the proof and it was all over.

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Post Posted: 08:27pm - Jan 21,18 
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Windy City wrote:
Contrary to what many people believe, a police officer (IDNR or other) is not nor does not have to be 100% well versed in every law in the book, just as there interpretation is not "the final word."

I personally am glad to see them there, at Navy pier, checking people and being seen. The more they are there, the more it will keep the people who have no respect for the code (or property, privacy, or anything for that matter) in line or just away from an area others respectfully use for recreation.

The guy who is keeping beyond his limit or other performing other actions that are disrespectful to the resource, is typically the same slob who is throwing trash in the lake, etc.

Kudos to you for your behavior and informing anyone else who cares to listen.


X2^
Everyone ripping the CO as being a jerk and raising $$ for the state.....not so much as far as I'm concerned. If he was a jerk.... It wouldn't have been a warning but rather a citation. And still within his authority and "Doing his job", so not really a jerk. And perhaps also impounding fish and or equipment. But even then he's doing his job. Unfortunately or unfortunately, depending on where you stand, he's not there to "make everyone happy". The determination to make it a financial penalty, "money grab" as some might call it, lies with the judge or administrative hearing officer. Or whatever they use. Again, just someone else's "job". That's where the "state's interpretation" will be made clear and that could weigh on either side, the angler's or the CO's. Again, the judge also is not there to "make everyone happy"

I appreciate every time I see them and let them know that in no uncertain terms.

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